Advice to get dealer to replace EV battery under warranty

[hunter]

In the interest of towing this thread back to the original topic, I’ll add my experience. My 2017 (~67K miles) is at the dealer awaiting a high-voltage battery replacement. It was doing all the stuff reported higher in this thread, including never charging above 75% and jumping to Battery Hold with 2 bars left on the battery if I was on the highway. I had been asking for them to check the charging ever since the battery manager update was performed several years ago.

This time I spent just over a week logging the actual range from a full charge to the ICE kicking on. All of my trips that week were without climate control or seat heaters and the MMI screen lowered while in EV mode. I averaged 7.8 miles of range during that time, as little as 5 on the coldest days (in the low 30s), and the battery took no more than 4,4 kwh each time before the car stopped drawing power. Besides a spreadsheet of those trips, I gave them screenshots from my charging app for my charge sessions. I asked for a battery diagnostic when I made the appointment. It took about a week before they notified me that battery needed replacement.

please post the kwh charge of the new battery pack.

 

[LegacEtron]

• i do not think that is correct. 8.8kWh should be the usable capacity, leaving some for hybrid operation. When charging capacity falls below 70% of 8.8kwh = 6.2kwh, the battery is a candidate for replacement. Here, 70% is a guess. Audi won't say what the actual number is.
• Great that many drivers are reporting kwh of charging capacity. That's so much more useful than miles of range, which has so much variation [temp, speed, hvac...] . It would also be great if drivers with fresh battery could report their charging capacity in kwh, to confirm the 8.8kwh.
• Is kwh available from the factory supplied charger, or just some others? which?

• i do not think that is correct. 8.8kWh should be the usable capacity, leaving some for hybrid operation. When charging capacity falls below 70% of 8.8kwh = 6.2kwh, the battery is a candidate for replacement. Here, 70% is a guess. Audi won't say what the actual number is.
• Great that many drivers are reporting kwh of charging capacity. That's so much more useful than miles of range, which has so much variation [temp, speed, hvac...] . It would also be great if drivers with fresh battery could report their charging capacity in kwh, to confirm the 8.8kwh.
• Is kwh available from the factory supplied charger, or just some others? which?

I can get it from the ChargePoint app when I use their charging network. I used to be able to get it from the JuiceBox app, but they’ve rebranded an EnelX and released a new app that busted my login. I’d be surprised if most app-connected chargers didn’t give you this information, somewhere. (I haven’t used the Audi charger since I had the JuiceBox installed.)

 

[dlinkA3]

• i do not think that is correct. 8.8kWh should be the usable capacity, leaving some for hybrid operation. When charging capacity falls below 70% of 8.8kwh = 6.2kwh, the battery is a candidate for replacement. Here, 70% is a guess. Audi won't say what the actual number is.
• Great that many drivers are reporting kwh of charging capacity. That's so much more useful than miles of range, which has so much variation [temp, speed, hvac...] . It would also be great if drivers with fresh battery could report their charging capacity in kwh, to confirm the 8.8kwh.
• Is kwh available from the factory supplied charger, or just some others? which?

8.8kWh is the total capacity, while Audi designed a buffer to protect the battery pack, allowing only ~6kWh availability. This does not express degradation. Since Audi NEVER made it known exactly how many net kWh were actually available for use, owners are unable to track actual loss of maximum kWh that are able to be charged.

 

[hunter]

8.8kWh is the total capacity, while Audi designed a buffer to protect the battery pack, allowing only ~6kWh availability. This does not express degradation. Since Audi NEVER made it known exactly how many net kWh were actually available for use, owners are unable to track actual loss of maximum kWh that are able to be charged.

you are right that the usable capacity is less: per green car guide UK, https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/green-car-guides/audi-a3-sportback-1-4-tfsi-e-tron/
Battery pack: 8.8 kWh lithium ion pack (6.2 kWh usable)

 

[SFkjeld]

• i do not think that is correct. 8.8kWh should be the usable capacity, leaving some for hybrid operation. When charging capacity falls below 70% of 8.8kwh = 6.2kwh, the battery is a candidate for replacement. Here, 70% is a guess. Audi won't say what the actual number is.
• Great that many drivers are reporting kwh of charging capacity. That's so much more useful than miles of range, which has so much variation [temp, speed, hvac...] . It would also be great if drivers with fresh battery could report their charging capacity in kwh, to confirm the 8.8kwh.
• Is kwh available from the factory supplied charger, or just some others? which?

Where can I see the kwh reading? I use the factory charger. And totally agree about “miles of range”. I live in San Francisco. I can drop a bar in only a few city blocks if I get on the wrong street.

 

[karen]

you are right that the usable capacity is less: per green car guide UK, https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/green-car-guides/audi-a3-sportback-1-4-tfsi-e-tron/
Battery pack: 8.8 kWh lithium ion pack (6.2 kWh usable)

So if I am looking at my kWh charged and I want to see what % to see if it is in range for factory requirements. Say its 5.5; I need to divide 5.5/6.2 = 88.7%? Is that correct? Assuming an acceptable degradation of 2% a year, and its a 2018, I would be in range as 2% x 6=12%.
Is that correct?

 

[dlinkA3]

Where can I see the kwh reading? I use the factory charger. And totally agree about “miles of range”. I live in San Francisco. I can drop a bar in only a few city blocks if I get on the wrong street.

We have a separate meter to record all kWh charged into our Audi A3 Sportback e-tron. Unfortunately there was no other way to discover the kWh added with our 2017 Audi. Our 2018 Tesla Model 3 shows us that data in our app, other apps, and on our touchscreen, but none of that is available with our Audi, since Audi Connect is gone now for several years due to junk 3G connectivity installed by Audi.

 

[bros225]

So if I am looking at my kWh charged and I want to see what % to see if it is in range for factory requirements. Say its 5.5; I need to divide 5.5/6.2 = 88.7%? Is that correct? Assuming an acceptable degradation of 2% a year, and its a 2018, I would be in range as 2% x 6=12%.
Is that correct?

Those calculation seem correct to me and match pretty much what I'm experiencing with my 2018. In my case I'm seeing a degradation of about 15% (5.8kWh/6.8kWh). Interestingly enough my mileage seems to have degradated only about 7% (14mi/15mi). Based on what I've read 2%+ degradation per year may be the norm... bummer.

 

[ZanneCanada1]

I have an Audi 2017 etron A3 sportback, purchased in Canada. It has 67,000 km on it (41,000 miles). Car has only ever been serviced at Audi. Recently, the car was in for service for 8 months as Audi could not figure out how to fix it (dealer was working with technical support) - issues were due to A/C not working and climate control. After replacing 5 parts (PTC Heater, HVAC..), the car was fixed, but as the car was sitting for this entire time, the turbo went. They replaced the turbo at their cost.

I picked the car up on January 24th. After driving it for less than 200km, on February 6th the car went into limp mode (Power Loss warning light came on) while driving on a major highway. Towed it to the same dealer, was told the control module that switched from the battery to the gas engine had failed. They replaced it. Now they are saying it is battery degradation. Apparently they cannot drive it for more than 2 minutes without the battery failing.

I have been told it will cost me $16K to now replace the battery and it is not covered under warranty. The car cannot be driven without this apparently, even in gas mode. In Canada, the warranty is 8 years or 130,000km. But regular wear and tear is not covered. I am waiting on a formal diagnosis in writing and the written estimate.

As you can imagine, I am beside myself with the issues this car has encountered. I am now without a vehicle because of this. I am not sure how I can prove that having to replace the battery is not regular wear and tear. Perhaps having the car in for service for 8 months and not being regularly charged contributed to it. I have contacted Audi Canada customer service on several occasions. And now am ready to alert the media/consumer reports on this.

Any advice you have regarding the warranty coverage and/or approach I might take to have the dealer/Audi Canada cover this replacement cost.

 

[dlinkA3]

I have an Audi 2017 etron A3 sportback, purchased in Canada. It has 67,000 km on it (41,000 miles). Car has only ever been serviced at Audi. Recently, the car was in for service for 8 months as Audi could not figure out how to fix it (dealer was working with technical support) - issues were due to A/C not working and climate control. After replacing 5 parts (PTC Heater, HVAC..), the car was fixed, but as the car was sitting for this entire time, the turbo went. They replaced the turbo at their cost.

I picked the car up on January 24th. After driving it for less than 200km, on February 6th the car went into limp mode (Power Loss warning light came on) while driving on a major highway. Towed it to the same dealer, was told the control module that switched from the battery to the gas engine had failed. They replaced it. Now they are saying it is battery degradation. Apparently they cannot drive it for more than 2 minutes without the battery failing.

I have been told it will cost me $16K to now replace the battery and it is not covered under warranty. The car cannot be driven without this apparently, even in gas mode. In Canada, the warranty is 8 years or 130,000km. But regular wear and tear is not covered. I am waiting on a formal diagnosis in writing and the written estimate.

As you can imagine, I am beside myself with the issues this car has encountered. I am now without a vehicle because of this. I am not sure how I can prove that having to replace the battery is not regular wear and tear. Perhaps having the car in for service for 8 months and not being regularly charged contributed to it. I have contacted Audi Canada customer service on several occasions. And now am ready to alert the media/consumer reports on this.

Any advice you have regarding the warranty coverage and/or approach I might take to have the dealer/Audi Canada cover this replacement cost.

Your situation is way worse than ours, since we can still drive our 2017 A3 Sportback e-tron. What you are encountering is failed Audi customer service, which appears to be pervasive in the Audi/VW brand. It is why we will never consider another one of their products. The only remaining hope is to contact Audi Germany, since we had much better communications with them during our battles with Audi USA while trying to get assistance for installing our trailer hitch and wiring.

We are sorry that we are unable to offer any productive solution.

 

[SirChargesAaalot]

Hi everyone, new owner here, just picked up a 2018 and am enjoying the car very much so far. I ran my first charge at a local station and it measured a total of 6.155 kWh to full charge.

6.155 / 6.8 = ~90% capacity per information I've found in this thread. For 2018 with 6 years of 2%/year acceptable loss. It looks like up to 12% would be fair game and I'm shy by 2%.

The one I picked up has 56k miles on the clock, technically, the battery should be covered until 2026 or 100k miles. I plan on driving this car for as long as it'll allow me to, so a fresh battery before the warranty goes out, could be a blessing. Let's see how this all plays out.

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on battery health/capacity and speaking with them as soon as it more or less qualifies for replacement. Fingers crossed they will work with me vs push back... Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences here.

 

[dlinkA3]

Your situation is way worse than ours, since we can still drive our 2017 A3 Sportback e-tron. What you are encountering is failed Audi customer service, which appears to be pervasive in the Audi/VW brand. It is why we will never consider another one of their products. The only remaining hope is to contact Audi Germany, since we had much better communications with them during our battles with Audi USA while trying to get assistance for installing our trailer hitch and wiring.

We are sorry that we are unable to offer any productive solution.

Our local Audi dealership has finally taken the next step to do the TACS battery testing, plus also investigate why our A3 e-tron has started in battery save mode several times recently, rather than EV mode, without us changing the choice at all. It appears that both Audi and VW software are prone to major problems in more than simply entertainment and Audi Connect.
We will know by tomorrow what the battery test and starting software testing reveal.

 

[SirChargesAaalot]

Our local Audi dealership has finally taken the next step to do the TACS battery testing, plus also investigate why our A3 e-tron has started in battery save mode several times recently, rather than EV mode, without us changing the choice at all. It appears that both Audi and VW software are prone to major problems in more than simply entertainment and Audi Connect.
We will know by tomorrow what the battery test and starting software testing reveal.

Feels like they are giving you way too much of a hard time for what very clearly isn't acceptable degredation. I'm sorry you're having to endure. I feel like when a dealer puts that much friction between the client and a warranty repair, it might be time to check out another dealership.

I know they always say that Audi/VW needs the data and they won't swap it without, but they have ways, they aren't dumb and if they truly want to help, they will figure out what's wrong with your car and get you taken care of.

 

[cmc]

I just installed a home chargepoint and did my first metered charge from zero to full... just under 6.0 kWh... so if 6.2 was the original usable, 0.2 loss is not bad... still charges to 8 bars and realistic under 20 miles of pure EV, indicated around 23...

 

[dlinkA3]

Feels like they are giving you way too much of a hard time for what very clearly isn't acceptable degredation. I'm sorry you're having to endure. I feel like when a dealer puts that much friction between the client and a warranty repair, it might be time to check out another dealership.

I know they always say that Audi/VW needs the data and they won't swap it without, but they have ways, they aren't dumb and if they truly want to help, they will figure out what's wrong with your car and get you taken care of.

No luck with Audi. The TACS testing revealed that our battery pack still works, there are no damaged modules, so they will not replace the pack, even though we have lost significant range. The California PHEV 10 year 150K mile warranty is not worth anything, when manufacturers can choose to ignore it without any consequences. A new version, requiring pack replacement, when SOC goes below 70% of original, will not go into effect until 2027, which will not help us. We are not upset with our local dealership, but we are disgusted with Audi USA, which refuses to support owners when their vehicles are refused warranty replacement for degraded battery packs.
No more Audi or VW products for us.

 

[SirChargesAaalot]

No luck with Audi. The TACS testing revealed that our battery pack still works, there are no damaged modules, so they will not replace the pack, even though we have lost significant range. The California PHEV 10 year 150K mile warranty is not worth anything, when manufacturers can choose to ignore it without any consequences. A new version, requiring pack replacement, when SOC goes below 70% of original, will not go into effect until 2027, which will not help us. We are not upset with our local dealership, but we are disgusted with Audi USA, which refuses to support owners when their vehicles are refused warranty replacement for degraded battery packs.
No more Audi or VW products for us.

That's such a bummer @dlinkA3 , I'm sorry you were not able to convince Audi USA to replace this pack. Like yourself, I would probably write them off also if I ever ran into what you just did.

Have you considered trying another dealership who is able to push the envelope and fight for you a bit on this? Some shops have more work than others, the ones who need the work have more incentive to find things that are wrong with your car to get fixed under warranty.

What's your plan for the car? Are you going to keep driving it or sell it off?

 

[dlinkA3]

That's such a bummer @dlinkA3 , I'm sorry you were not able to convince Audi USA to replace this pack. Like yourself, I would probably write them off also if I ever ran into what you just did.

Have you considered trying another dealership who is able to push the envelope and fight for you a bit on this? Some shops have more work than others, the ones who need the work have more incentive to find things that are wrong with your car to get fixed under warranty.

What's your plan for the car? Are you going to keep driving it or sell it off?

Our local Audi dealership sent it out for TACS testing, which is what other dealerships have done according to others on this list, so I doubt another dealership in our area will do anything else.

As to selling it, we only have 22K miles on the car and it usually works well, it is fully paid off, and we only use it around town in EV mode. We have no desire to purchase a new vehicle. If we replaced it, we would likely buy a low cost used BEV. Our 2018 Tesla Model 3 works perfectly, has had only 2 minor issues (repaired under warranty: glove box replaced and running lights on driver side replaced), and we are at 45K miles. We will keep it forever.

Problems:
1. Decreased electric range.
2. Starting failing once every few weeks, even though the brake pedal is fully depressed. We have to turn it off and push as hard as possible again, so that it starts. It does not occur all the time, and the dealer was not able to make it happen in their testing.
3. The car occasionally changes to battery hold setting, even though it is ALWAYS set for EV. Turning it off, doing something for 10 minutes or so, and it starts up in EV mode again, so there is a software flaw, but our dealer was unable to get that to occur during their testing either, which is not unexpected, because it usually happens only once every 3 months or more.
4. Audi USA has poor customer service after you have already bought the car. Tesla service has been excellent. Our local dealer has tried to support us, but has been left hanging by Audi USA, so no battery pack replacement, even with California’s 10 year 150K mile PHEV battery pack warranty.

Final solution is to contact the CA Attorney General’s office.

 

[SirChargesAaalot]

Our local Audi dealership sent it out for TACS testing, which is what other dealerships have done according to others on this list, so I doubt another dealership in our area will do anything else.

As to selling it, we only have 22K miles on the car and it usually works well, it is fully paid off, and we only use it around town in EV mode. We have no desire to purchase a new vehicle. If we replaced it, we would likely buy a low cost used BEV. Our 2018 Tesla Model 3 works perfectly, has had only 2 minor issues (repaired under warranty: glove box replaced and running lights on driver side replaced), and we are at 45K miles. We will keep it forever.

Problems:
1. Decreased electric range.
2. Starting failing once every few weeks, even though the brake pedal is fully depressed. We have to turn it off and push as hard as possible again, so that it starts. It does not occur all the time, and the dealer was not able to make it happen in their testing.
3. The car occasionally changes to battery hold setting, even though it is ALWAYS set for EV. Turning it off, doing something for 10 minutes or so, and it starts up in EV mode again, so there is a software flaw, but our dealer was unable to get that to occur during their testing either, which is not unexpected, because it usually happens only once every 3 months or more.
4. Audi USA has poor customer service after you have already bought the car. Tesla service has been excellent. Our local dealer has tried to support us, but has been left hanging by Audi USA, so no battery pack replacement, even with California’s 10 year 150K mile PHEV battery pack warranty.

Final solution is to contact the CA Attorney General’s office.

1. If you have lost more than the documented acceptable loss over time, then you should have no need for other issues to get it fixed.

2. I've experienced something similar a few times since I got the car a month ago or so and I haven't yet figured out the pattern, I am under the impression it's something I might be doing differently that's causing the "E-tron ready" notice to not show up. I think sometimes I go to D too quickly assuming it's ready, then it forces me to go back to P to cycle the ignition again for a successful "e-tron ready" status. I certainly hope this isn't a problem like you're describing because I'll likely have the same issue.

3. A friend of mine has a hybrid jeep and a bunch of folks there were complaining that even though they keep the car in EV mode all the time, it'll switch the gas motor on from time to time. Push comes to shove after months of complaints and dealers not even knowing the answer....

Jeep built in a forced engine run cycle to keep the ICE components healthy and moving for the person who ends up driving mostly/always in EV mode. I wonder if Audi has built something similar in which is going undocumented and unknown by the dealers. Honestly, dealerships know very little when it comes to the details and intricacies of the software side of things. I see lots of claims that the e-tron charger is broken on the internet and it turns out Audi built in some battery health features that are undocumented but this is for another discussion.

I'm not by any means saying you don't have a case. You should get your new battery, based on capacity alone. Let me know what you think about my experiences and if they make any sense in your situation or not.

 

[jumper]

I recently started getting these forum updates for some reason. I replaced my 2016 Etron A3 battery with a 2017 Q5 in 2019. Zero issues since and I have all wheel drive in the winter. I bailed on the A3 Etron.

With the Hybrid, on an 1100 mile each way trip from CA to Montana I got 11% non-gasoline contribution with no external charging along the way according to the car. At home, I was lucky to get 15 miles to the store and back on the battery.

I installed a separate electric meter and 50A circuits for EV charging. Maybe that will pay out eventually with a future EV/HEV, but the A3 Etron seems to have been just a nice toe-in-the-water for Audi.

 

[SFkjeld]

I think you are right about the e-Tron. It was Audi’s entry car into the hybrid market. I believe the platform came from VW anyway. And we just upgraded our charging circuit to 220V. It results in more EV time because we can get a full charge several times a day.